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With both an eye and an ear for the sights and sounds of history in the making, few people know British subculture quite like Dean Chalkley. We sat down with the world-renowned photographer to talk Ben Sherman, new masculinities, and the enduring appeal of the humble Vespa

interview by Will HALBERT

Your work exists at an all-important intersection between music, art and culture, does that make working with brands Like Ben Sherman that little bit more rewarding?
Yeah, working with brands like Ben Sherman is a treat. The set up and DNA of the company means that there is an understanding of how culture works and interconnects. I’m all for heading out and introducing people to new things, but it’s great to just get straight in on the right track and then start creating and having fun.

On the subject of Ben Sherman, how was the Carnaby Street store re-opening? 
It was a blast! The decks were set up in the window of the freshly-refurbished store. Once we started to boom out the music, people crammed in to check out the shop and have a drink. I must say: Full respect to Flash Gordon the Urban Dandy, Durrassie, Neil Barker and Marley, who all came down, got the party started and danced like mad. Flash even did a bit of MCing. I think everyone who came enjoyed themselves. Several times I turned round and there were even crowds out in the street having a ball.

Can you tell us a little bit about what you were spinning and exhibiting?
I played right across the board, so Northern Soul, Rhythm & Blues, Ska, Latin Boogaloo, Jazz, Rare Groove. One of the best moments was when
I put on ‘Easy’ by one of my favourite contemporary Soul singers, Laville. As if by magic, right on cue, he only flippin’ walked in! Like, right at that very moment. It was uncanny to be honest!

As for the exhibition, I was asked to pull out a selection of vinyls from my personal collection that has sign- ificance to me. I chose a cool 50 gems. The records were photographed, printed, and had my little story att-ached to them. Some of them were pretty funny, too. Amongst my choices were The Who’s ‘Anyway. Anyhow Anywhere’, Wade Flemons’ ‘Jeanette’, The Selecter’s ‘On My Radio’ and The White Stripes’ ‘Elephant’. It was great doing 50, to be honest, it became a deep dive into my psyche. I feel like I learned a thing or two about myself in the process!

What do you think it is about the Mod and Northern Soul movements that still captures people’s interest to this day? 
The Mod and Northern Soul movements are separate, of course. But there are crossover points. The Mod movement grew out of the cool, young, suited-and-sharp-styled modernists. They were in to Modern Jazz in the late 1950s, then, as time moved on, they got into Rhythm & Blues, Soul, Ska, and bands like the Small Faces and The Action. Over time the clothing and hairstyles underwent significant changes, becoming more swingin’ 60s. It didn’t stop there of course, there was the Mod Revival, Acid Jazz scene etc, all developing in slightly different ways and all have their place in the fabric of the culture. 

The Northern Soul Scene started with elements of the Mod Scene in the North of the UK, but really focused on Soul sounds. The fashion, clubs, dancing styles and stylistic tastes separated from what you could call a strictly Mod background. The music drives the culture and although originally rooted in 1960s Soul and R&B, it is expansive and explores totally different avenues to the sounds that Mods would be listening to. I’m sure your readers from both scenes will want me to explain that just in case people might not know. For me and countless others there is great love for both. You just have to look at my record collection to have that illustrated. More often than not nowadays, there is a great blend of people at clubs and out and about. All are brought together and can get down to great music.

But to finally answer the question. It still captures people’s interest because you can’t keep a good thing down. There is an overwhelming passion at work here: a collective individuality. Once people experience it, they are often hooked. There is such a rich heritage – aesthetically, sartorially and sonically speaking – in both the Mod and Northern scenes, so much stuff to explore and to find and to be thrilled by.

If you had to sum up the Mod Scene in one record and one item of clothing, what would they be?
Tough question! The Mod scene has so many facets. Sartorially, it can be smart or casual. And musically, it can be so wide ranging. But to answer the question I’d say the one item of clothing that I really think has the ability to say so much about a person is a suit. The general cut of the suit; the material selected; the taper, length and rise of the trousers; style of pockets; the number and orientation of buttons. All of these elements can really say something. So it’s got to be the suit.

Musically speaking, I think it could be Mark Murph with his vocal version of ‘Milestones’. It’s a dynamic, straight-ahead, modern jazz track originally composed by Miles Davis. That alone makes it very, very cool. But Mark Murphy’s lyrics add an even more agitated pace and urgency, this is distilled, pure Mod.

Speaking of Mods and Northern Soul; I hear you have a 1958 Vespa Sport. How did you find it, and how well is it running?
It’s a lovely little scooter, actually. Buying it came down to one of those funny moments where you say to a mate, ‘If you’re ever thinking of selling your scooter let me know’ and, two years later, having that same friend call you and tell you he’s moving to Australia in a few day’s time and needs to sell his scooter! Sounds far fetched but it was true.

I’ve had lots of scooters in the past: Vespas and Lambrettas – even a Cento and a J125 which are Lambrettas, but with pressed frames like a Vespa (hope you don’t mind me getting too train-spotter on you there). I might be selling my Vespa soon though, as it just sits in the garage and I really think it deserves to be with someone who rides it more.
Any takers amongst your readers?

As far as brands go, Ben Sherman have a pretty rich relationship with some of Britain’s most enduring and endearing subcultures. What are your earliest memories of the brand?
My earliest memories of Ben Sherman would have been at school. I should say right now: The school I went to was not a fancy place! It was the school you went to if you’d failed your 11+ exam. But to be fair, it was a school that instilled its pupils with resilience and transferable skills beyond the academic. It was around the time of the Mod revival, so in the playground and on the streets of Southend-on-Sea, Mods (and all other rival sub-cultures) were everywhere. My mate’s dad was a Mod back in the 60s, and he passed all his lovely Ben Sherman stuff down to his lucky son. I have to say, I always wanted those fine shirts.

Earlier this year, your ‘Looking for Men’ did a great job of examining changes in the concept of masculinity through photography. Can you tell us a little about the inspiration behind the project?
Yes the Book of Man is an important publication, operating mainly online and making events to bring people together and to do a bit of good. It’s great because it’s not all preachy but it does discuss really important things and aims to get over the idea that there is a kind of new masculinity that benefits everyone and acknowledges that things need to change and evolve. People like Professor Green, Laurel, Luke Campbell, Lion (aka Beth Lowen), James Lavelle, Loyle Carner have all contributed. It confronts mental health problems providing help and working with brilliant charities like C.A.L.M. It includes stuff for the mind, body and skills, as well as an idea of building a community, but the best thing to do is to check it out for yourself.

I worked on ‘Looking for Men’ with the Book of Man, as part of the final event in their Festival of New Masculinity series. I set out to show a cross-section of men all photographed on one day. I worked with a Lomo Instant Camera and a digital camera. We exhibited the results that very  night. We were aiming for an almost impossible amount of 100 men, but in fact I ended up photographing 106 men. 

Straight after the shoot, we did a Q&A in the basement of the Book Club venue, I presented the results from the day’s shoot, and then we all danced the night away to the sounds provided by DJ Justin Robertson. It was a full-on day, but through it all we demonstrated that there is such variety in our society. Really important stuff was talked about and everyone had a good time in the process.

Do you think the ways in which we express ourselves have changed over the years? Are music and fashion still important avenues of self-expression?
We do express ourselves differently, and the diversity of our society is thankfully celebrated more than ever. Hopefully, there is more consideration and care for those around us too. I know that’s not always the case, but I think things are changing for the better. The internet allows a global font of reference, and I think that we need to hold on to the notion of what it is to be an individual person who can explore and plunge deep into fashions that they feel drawn to. 

Music is the engine of culture. The emotion, energy and theatre that it delivers can be really stimulating. Fashion can be a part of that, or it can be inspired by it. Then once it all gets into the hands, ears and heads of the audience, it can become even more powerful. The fluidity of culture and gender should not be seen as a threat to the status quo. Instead, it is a rich part of what will be the future of our society. So the answer is yes, music and fashion are possibly even more important now than ever.

And lastly, what are you working on at the moment? Anything we should be keeping and eye out on?
I’m constantly shooting stuff, whether it’s commissions for publications like the Sunday Times Magazine, The Observer or NME. I’ve recently done shoots with Paul Weller, Liam Gallagher and his kids, Virgil Abloh, Mark Ronson, Rosamund Pike and Loyle Carner. I also did the Danny Boyle ‘Yesterday’ film posters and Cush Jumbo for the Young Vic’s ‘Hamlet’, too. When commissions pop up they are generally with short notice, so I don’t even know what the next couple of weeks hold in store. 

But I am in the early stages of collaborating on a piece with Discordo for an exhibition celebrating Ian Dury due out next year called ‘All Kinds of Naughty’. Harris Elliott and I did Return of the Rudeboy, and in July we presented a small version of it in Coventry (The home of 2-Tone, obviously) which is a teaser to a bigger version that’s being scheduled for 2021 hopefully. 

I do a monthly radio show on Totally Wired Radio (on-line station), the show is called PULL UP!! and it’s also with Harris. I’m looking forward to the screenings of my film ‘Kojey Radical: A Short Film’ at the We Out Here festival and Filmstock in Margate. Loads of DJ dates coming up too, including The Corner at The House of St Barnabas, The Modcast Weekender in October and a guest spot at the South London Soul Train later in the year. And, of course, I’ll be DJing at Berlin’s Ben Sherman store with my good friends Eddie Piller and Dom Oré. So it’s a busy ol’ time all the time really, but that’s how I love it. One thing feeds the other in terms of inspiration and energy.